Chad and Keith discuss the Genesis 22 narrative of Abraham sacrificing his son Isaac and how that story pictures Christ.
Intro (Keith): Welcome to the Kanakuk Institute Podcast, where we continue to equip leaders with biblical skills for a lifetime of ministry.
Chad (00:13): And welcome back into the Kanakuk Institute Podcast, Keith Chancey and Chad Hampsch with you, excited, we’re doing a series, Keith, on some of the stories from the Old Testament, and, we’ve been talking the last several times about, you know, the importance for people understanding the Old and New Testament being complimentary, that they connect. So we’ve looked at the story of Adam and Eve and the beginning of the fall, and God’s plan for salvation that was found in that story, in multiple ways, and, you know, Hebrews 10 talks about the fact that the things in the past were a shadow of the good gifts that would come, and so, these Old Testament stories are intended to teach us about God’s character, to teach us about God’s plan for his chosen people, but also planting seeds about something that would happen in the future, and so, Keith, we’re going to look at this story of Abraham and Isaac. Why is that story so important before we kind of unpack what’s going on?
Keith (01:13): Oh my goodness. Well, you know, Abraham is one of the faithful men of the bible. And when you look at him, you go, he, there is no greater man that we could put, that we could look at that had a greater influence on our Old Testament. And so because God spoke to him in a very large way saying, “Your descendants are going to be like the sands of the seashore, I’m going to give you a land, a seed, and a blessing, I’m going to give you what’s called the Abrahamic covenant.” And with that, there’s going to be a land, there’s going to be a seed, there’s going to be a blessing. And this seed is going to be the Son of Man. And you’re going, “Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute. You’re descendants like the sand of the seashore?” And they’re going to have a problem there, Chad. And the problem is that he and his wife can’t get pregnant. And so they’re going, “Wait, wait, wait, wait.” And to them, I’m sure this was the most confusing thing in the world. And I think that just stopping right there and just kind of unpacking that just a little bit, I think we could all relate to that. You know, we believe that God made us a promise that if you get married, you’re going to have kids, and God’s going to give you certain things, and then you go, “Wait a minute, it didn’t work out the way I wanted it to.” Maybe some of you, you’re not even married, and you want to be married. Maybe some of you are married and you want out of your marriage. You know, maybe some of you are married and you want kids and you can’t have kids. Maybe some of you are married and you have kids, and you don’t wish you had those kids, you know, I mean there’s so may ways that go on here, that what you’re going to see is, the unfolding of a great story, of God revealing to Abraham, through even his ignorance at times, that I am God, and you got to trust.
Chad (02:46): Yeah, you even see that in the names that Abraham uses to describe God. You mentioned the seed part, I think about the land part, where he basically is asked to give up his inheritance to go to a land he’s never seen, by the way we don’t have an inheritance there for you, there’s people in the land that I’m going to give you. I can’t imagine, and all of us have been called for instance, you and I have been called to Branson. I don’t think you’d necessarily call that the promised land, right?
Keith (03:15): I don’t know, there are a lot of good shows.
Chad (03:17): But, just how often we’re called to go somewhere uncomfortable, and certainly Abraham understands how difficult that call is. ‘
Keith (03:28): And Chad, even thinking about that, you know, what you said, “A calling.” You know, a lot of y’all out there, you’re going, “Is God calling me to another job? Is God calling me to go get involved in a ministry. Is God calling me?” And there’s so many ways that we can hear that calling. And God spoke directly to Abraham. And the great thing about that is, you know, how does God speak directly to us today? Through out prayer life and through the Spirit moving in us. And are we listening? And when it lines up to what, you know, am I saved? Am I in God’s will? Am I in the word of God? Am I in prayer, am I seeking council? You can make any decision and it is the will of God as long as you put it before the Lord, and said, “God I want to do what you want me to do.” That’s a calling. And now I can respond to God’s calling, and no matter where I go, no matter what I do, if it’s in that order of what I’ve just said, then I can say, “I can do this, even if it gets tough.” Because I’m going to tell you right now, coming to Branson wasn’t easy, starting the institute. No ministry, no job that anybody ever starts is going to be easy. But you got to have the mentality, no quit. And I’m going to, because this is the will of God, no quit. And there are no such thing as perfect bosses, you know? But you go, you know what? I’m not a perfect boss, nobody’s a perfect boss, everybody has flaws. But that we’re not there to criticize the people around me, I’m there to make them better. And if you understand your reason for being there that it’s a ministry, I’m going to make it better, no matter where you go, what you do to start, you’re going to be ok.
Chad (05:10): Yeah, that’s good. So, we’re going to look at this story of Abraham and Isaac, just recap real quick, God took a man named Abram and gave him a promise, that you mentioned, called the Abrahamic covenant. And he gave him three layers. A land, a seed, and a blessing, so we touched on those a little bit. The seed is the complicated one, right? He and his wife can’t have a child, and so when they do have a child eventually, that child is going to be very precious to them, which really sets up what’s happening in Genesis 22. Keith, kind of help us understand just in the narrative of Genesis 22, what happens? What did God ask Abraham to do with the child that he had promised, and was really born through the woman that had a dead womb?
Keith (05:58): Well you know, Chad, that, I can understand this, I’ll talk a little more about this in a minute, and you can too. You know, it says in chapter 22 verse 1, “Now it came about after these things that God tested Abraham and said to him, ‘Abraham.’ And he said, ‘Here I am Lord.’ ‘Take now your son, your only Son, whom you love, Isaac. Go to the land of Moriah and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains which I will show you.’”
Chad (06:27): We could be done right there probably.
Keith (06:29): I just go, “Are you kidding me?” You see, what people don’t understand, and I didn’t even understand, Abraham and Sarah can’t get pregnant, so they try to do it their own way. So, Sarah says, “Abraham, I can’t get pregnant, my womb is closed. Why don’t you go to my maid servant Hagar, and y’all have a child, and this will be honoring to God, and we’ll do what God told us to do, and our descendants will be like the sand of the seashore.” Only problem, my will vs. God’s will. Had God told them that he would do this? Yes. Did they do it wrong? Yes. And what were the results? We have the Muslim nations, and the Christian nations today, as a result of this union. Unfortunately, you know, Abraham and Sarah do make a decision, a choice, once again that choice, all the way back to the garden. When you choose wrongly, there are consequences to your choice. There is a right will and a wrong. And so, when Abraham and Sarah do it wrong, they have this child that’s a wild donkey of a man, it’s said, and it’s not that good. And Hagar and Sarah do not get along, they had to split up with each other. Abraham has to mediate, it is a horrible situation, and now here you are, in 22, chapter 22, and here it is, God tests Abraham, “You did it wrong while ago. Are you going to do it right this time? Let me show you. Here’s what I want you to do. I’ve given you a son, now, take him to a mountain, and I want you to offer him there.” What? I mean you just, you can’t make that up. You’re going to have descendants like the sand of the seashore, you did it wrong, and now I’m telling you to sacrifice your son. Chad, talk to me, you and your wife went through some difficult times.
Chad (08:26): Yeah, I can’t imagine for Abraham and Sarah, who were given this promise and her womb is dead. Like he is past age, like, it’s impossible, which sounds like another impossible birth.
Keith (08:36): A ninety and a hundred year old man doing it and you’re going, my goodness this is unbelievable.
Chad (08:42): Yeah, and so they have this child, and then this child is so precious, and for those of y’all in the audience that have struggled with losing a child before, having a miscarriage, or just the difficulty of getting pregnant. I think you look at this passage differently, because there’s pain, and there’s hardship that people go through. The other thing that’s really fascinating here for me Keith, is that he goes out of his way to take your only son, and Abraham has two sons. But here he uses the word only son, in fact in some translations it’s the only begotten son, which ties back to John 3:16 once again. So, there’s a lot going on here, not just in this lower story, but in the upper story.
Keith (09:26): The shadowing.
Chad (09:28): Yeah, and Keith, I’d love to hear you talk about Moriah, because that mountain has significant in Israel that maybe a lot of people don’t know. Where is this when we think about Israel?
Keith (09:40): Well, this is right in Jerusalem, this is the mountain that God right here with Abraham, he has him take his son, and put him on the altar in Moriah, and this land is now taken over by the Muslims today, and it is the biggest conflict probably in the world, of Israel the Jews wanting that, and the Muslims now have it, and so they’re fighting over this land, and there’s a wall there called the wailing wall in Jerusalem that the Jews cry over every day that they believe that’s their land, I mean, it’s just crazy that this Moriah is so important to the nation of Israel, God’s chosen people, because it’s the land that God promised. And so, there is a complication there.
Chad (10:33): Yeah, and if you want to dig in a little bit further, I think it’s Numbers 3 that talks about how God planned for to take Mt Moriah, and that’s where they built the temple mount, which is what you’re referring to. So if you want to dig more, you’re welcome to look there. So let’s keep going in the narrative.
Keith (10:48): Yeah, let’s keep going because this story now, God says, “Take your only son, take him up on the mountain, sacrifice him,” and that’s what’s going to happen. And so what’s amazing is you see that in the very, very next verse, that it says, verse 3, “So Abraham rose early in the morning.” You see obedience here. And I tell you what, once you’ve done it wrong and you own your mistake, this is what you do when God speaks, you do it right. He rises up early, he takes his son, he saddles a donkey, and he goes with Isaac to the mountain, and he’s ready to, he takes split wood, for the burnt offering, and he goes to the place which God had told him, and he begins his journey. And this boy, you’ve got to understand, this is not a two-year-old.
Chad (11:38): Yeah, this is my son. A thirteen-year-old.
Keith (11:43); Yeah, he’s a thirteen-year-old man, and we don’t know, I remember with Cameron, my son, you know, he got about thirteen, and all he wanted to do is wrestle, and I wasn’t so sure he couldn’t take me.
(11:53): And it’s not like Abraham is shallow in years here. He’s a hundred plus.
Keith (11:58): Yeah, and so you’re going, here’s this man with this, you know, tough, thirteen-year-old kid and, “Hey Dad, where are we doing?” “We’re going to the mountain.” “What are we going to do?” “Sacrifice.” “Hey Dad, I’m kind of looking around, there’s no sacrifice here.” “Yeah, God will provide.” “Uh, Dad, uh I’m kind of wondering.”
Chad (12:20): “What’s going on here?” And I think what’s fascinating here too, Keith, is in verse 5, when he’s talking to the slave, and he says, “I and the boy are going to go up on the hill and worship.” You know, the first time we hear that word in the Bible. And, what I love about that is we have this conception of worship as being something very specific, maybe it’s singing in church, or praying with people, which all those things can be worship, but here, Abraham is simply obeying God. And it’s worship. So, I think it’s just a great reminder for all of us, as we obey God’s word, we are worshiping with our lives.
Keith (13:00): And no matter what we go through and we’re asked to do, it’s worship. You know, Chad, that, and I’ve told you guys this story before, but I want to remind you, when Karen and I got pregnant and in the 7th month of her pregnancy, she goes into premature labor, and the doctor says to me, “Keith, your son, we’re going to have to do a C-section on your wife, we can’t stop this baby from coming. He’s going to come, and if he weighs under a certain amount, all I’m going to be able to do is take him out of your wife’s belly, put him on a scale, and if he weighs under a certain amount, I’m just going to wipe him off, hand him to you, and he’s going to die in your arms. Are you able to handle this?”
Chad (13:42): The answer is no, no I can’t handle it.
Keith (13:44): But that’s what God is calling worship. And you go, “Wait a minute.”
Chad (13:51): He wants us to give up the very thing we’re holding on to.
Keith (13:53): The very thing we’re holding on to. And as I just think about that I just to, “God, thank you that you taught me that.” But I didn’t like it.
Chad (14:01): No, and you don’t want to go back.
Keith (14:03): No, and I don’t want to go through it again. But the amount of times I’ve had to go through that since, with family members dying, I’ve buried my Dad, buried my mom, and you just bury people, friends, and you see people that you love, and you see them die, and you go, “Wait a minute, God was preparing me.” That if this earth is as good as it gets, I am giving the wrong picture to people. It’s an eternal view, and that’s what Abraham is doing, “Hey, take your only son. Your only begotten son, sacrifice him, and God will provide.”
Chad (14:38): And that’s the part that’s so staggering.
Keith (14:40): And he calls it worship.
Chad (14:42): So let’s talk, does God show up? Abraham says God’s going to provide, what happens? As we look at the rest of the narrative, what happens?
Keith (14:51): Well, the greatest thing that could have happened. They’re up there, Abraham binds his son, puts hi on the altar, takes the knife, starts to come down on his son. All of a sudden an angel of the Lord, “Stop, look behind you, there’s a ram caught in the thicket. Take away the knife.” And don’t you know what Isaac said.
Chad (15:13): Pulling the ropes off.
Keith (15:14): And daddy’s cutting him off as fast as possible, those ropes, and they rejoice, and they hug, and they bawl together. Because you see what God did is he provided the lamb. And God provides the lamb.
Chad (15:27): Is it a surprise?
Keith (15:28): It’s no surprise. That’s the shadow.
Chad (15:33): I love the question that Isaac asks right before all the, and it says, “My father,” and he said, “here I am my son.” And he said, “Behold the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb.” And if there’s four words that would describe the Old Testament, it’s those four words: where is the lamb. And so, that’s what this series is about, we can’t wait to come back next time, and to continue to recap on “Where is the lamb?” in these wonderful stories that, I just maybe close with this. I think that maybe these stories are so close to us sometimes that we don’t actually know them. Like we’ve heard them so much that we haven’t’ gone back and read them. And so I would encourage you, go back and read some of these stories, go read Genesis 22, read Hebrews 11 talking about Abraham and Isaac.
Keith (16:21): And look a little deeper for that Abrahamic Covenant, look more what’s going on here. Is it just about these stories, or is a deeper, like you said, upper level, lower level. Because we’ve just went lower level, very, very blessed. I’m more blessed today knowing that there is a lamb that was slain here that was prophesying of what was foreshadowed what will happen in the New Testament, and I can see over 4,000 years ago that this happened saying, “It’s coming. The lamb is coming.”
Chad (16:48): The lamb is coming.
Keith (16:50): And he says that in Hebrews chapter 11.
Chad (16:54): Yeah, that’s good. Well, we’ll be excited to keep this series going, we’re going to come back next time and continue to cover some of these Old Testament stories. If there are stories that you would like to hear from the Old Testament that point to Christ, we want you to reach out to Keith and I, shoot us a text, let us know what stories you want us to cover. We’re excited to spend time with you once again on the Kanakuk Institute Podcast. Have a great day.
Keith (17:13): God bless.